Contact
Subscribe
Bookmark- Philosophy (11)
- Dangerous Language (1)
- Tao Saturdays (4)
- Science (1)
- Software Development (3)
- One Theme (2)
- Thought Layer (1)
Loops
Published on Monday, June 29, 2009 by KarlThe idea of a divine creator bothers me because it creates an infinite loop; who created the creator’s creator’s creator.. and it goes on and on and on.
I am not talking about the creator of man, I am quite open to the idea that our existence on this planet was influenced or orchestrated in some way. I’m talking about the creator of all existence, space and time.
Why does this loop bother me so much? Most of the software I build uses a loop of some sort, creating its own little bubble of time ticking away and expanding with every bit of ram consumed. All virtual reality works in this way, your operating system works this way. So why the hell does it bother me?
Because there is always something outside of the loop. What started the loop? The loop always has to be created by something outside the loop. Therefore we get loops within loops. Loop, loop, loop, I even love saying the word loop.
There has to be a simple answer. If all the matter in the universe originated from a single point, then there must be something that is now out of phase with that bubble. A something but a nothing. The void. But there would still have to be something that started the loop, a trigger. Every single theory I come up with for this trigger is garbage, because how can the human mind possibly imagine something that has absolutely nothing in common with the environment we inhabit? We simply process our sensory input..
Oh well the Tao Te Ching says I cannot understand until I stop searching..
Tags: 
Ancient India and ancient Greece philosophy (partially,in specificated texts) presents the universe as liquid fire with
bubbles,in which this external fire enters through white worm-holes forming into matter (galaxies),and exits through
the black holes.If the question:”How did those persons know” is arroused,an answer could be:”You can know the
universe without leaving your room”,or better,Lao Che’s teaching:”look at the family as family,look at the nation as nation,look at the universe as universe._’How do you want me to know how is the universe?’_By looking!”.
Perhaps the simple answer you seek is faith? I’m not trying to sell you religion here, I’m completely serious.This very question has troubled me for a very long time.
Most philosophical questions don’t have true answers, more pondering than answering.
I’ve got one for you, when does something become conscious when individual cells aren’t them selves conscious, at what point does consciousness begin?
I love you guys.
Helen:
All science starts with a theory right? You have your theory and then you test it with data. Isn’t philosophy simply the theory without the data?
On consciousness: I think that consciousness is like a loopback (there’s that word again). Your normal system has an input and an output right? But the brain doesn’t work like that, there’s a loopback on the output. The output becomes more input. For me, it’s the reflection that implies sentience.
Andy: I wish I had read half of the books in your library. I’m not against faith, only blind faith. But I don’t think I will ever be able to let go of having to see evidence. Still.. I like this quote ‘There can be no progress without change. And those who cannot change their minds, cannot change anything.’
You just need to stop searching…too many people search for answers that im sorry your not going to find by sitting there and thinking about the hows and whys…it doesnt work that way…i just think that the idea of a ‘being’ out of the loop doesnt work…no offence to any religion, i just don’t see that something such as a god can exist, not due… Read More to the amount of suffereing etc in the world, it’s just, nothing ties up…and once more your left with the dilemma of where did that other being come from…
as for an answer i dont have one…i dont think i want one either…i believe more than anything if we were meant to discover something we would have by now…somethings arent meant to be discovered in my personal opinion.
Most of the books in my library have been thoroughly discredited or disproved by modern science. Just remember that Chemistry was born of Alchemy and question everything. I really believe the key is The Search and The Questioning. The danger comes when people think they have The Answer(TM).
Rose, I’m not sure that we should stop searching. I suspect that certainty is more harmful to humans than anything else. As long as we don’t forget to love & look after each other.
)
Okay, now I sound like a hippy. I’m out of here
i think that we’ve sort of discovered too much n certain areas…the whole playing god thing, i don’t agree with it…if things like hybrids etc were meant to be surely they akready would be…like i say just personal opinion and, I can see where others are coming from
I agree. I’m not trying to sell you anything
) I think if some things are unknowable & simply beyond us we should be open to them experientially, if not searching for them academically (that’s the wrong word, but I can’t think of the right one).
i get what your saying, and i know that we need to research to understand certain things, but sometimes i just think things are taken too far…I find it difficult to agree with religion in general due to the hatred it brings, even if it does bring joy to many aswell, it’s something that causes too much dispute for me
Rose: Very Tao. Two points:
1. I think the kind of religion Andy is endorsing is somewhat different from the organized religion widely pushed today (Christianity, Islam, bla). From previous conversations etc. I completely agree with you that blindly following the word or a 2000 year old book that was probably written by the emperor of Rome from a collection of stories flying around by word of mouth at the time is a little desperate. But one doesn’t have to follow a religion to believe (or have faith) in a creator.
2. If every now and then humans didn’t experiment and think, we wouldn’t have technology. Was the nuclear bomb meant to be discovered?
Andy: Yet another quote, from Zeitgeist I think.. “To be proven wrong should be celebrated”. The answer is the hunger, but the fun is always in the eating, not being satisfied. Although the ‘after food fag’ is nice too.
now now forsh, did i say we shouldnt have experimented etc at all??? no I did not! I think my exact words were…hang on… “i think that we’ve sort of discovered too much in certain areas” … Ofc I know that it has been essential for us to carry out certain experiments and discover what we have…
in response to the nuclear bomb question, its the same concept as us and the world etc, was it meant to be discovered or did it happen by fluke..
And the hungry man enjoys the feast
)
I’ve enjoyed this. Very provocative in a positive way
Andy: I think we should do it more often.
Rose, u daft git I wasn’t trying to antagonize you. I think your argument is compelling, the nuclear bomb thing is something that bothers me a lot. Its a bit like nuclear fusion. The ultimate source of power that could free us from fossil fuel entirely. How do we know that we aren’t fucking with other universes or even particles in our own universe, by screwing around at the atomic level? We could be tearing hole’s in planets, creating undesired reactions in stars, its quite terrifying really.
I know you weren’t you tit :p it may be terrifying, but its happening and its been happening a while…and so I guess I sort of believe that if its happening its supposed to be in a way…i know thats a contradiction to me saying that we shouldnt be experimenting so much, because if I believe ‘what happens happens for a reason’ then I should accept that that is happening…but I guess I have different beliefs for different aspects of life…I dont mind : p
I must be more Homer Simpson than Homer (Odyssey).
I believe it was Ian Gillan who said “are we just a bubble in someone else’s beer?”
At last i found some time to think a bit and bother you with my disagreement.
I am in doubt, you say that you are open to the idea of some kind of spiritual boost that influenced our existence on this planet but some how the same thing can not apply to all existence, space and time.
In the case of our existence how come you didn’t encounter any loop?
As I started to think about it I twisted my mind as hard as I could but still got no answer.
I tend to like the idea of something mysterious and spiritual behind the creation of all existence and I guess, until we start thinking out of our mind we shall never reach any answer.
Anyway Tao Te Ching is full of wisdom and probably is right.